Wednesday, July 25, 2007

Therindhal sollungal - Kula thozil

Tell me this.. In olden days, Brahmins were doing poojas and teachings, kings and ministers did take care of people and war, Black/ Gold smith did their job with metals, farmers did farming etc.. Their children also learned the same from them.

At a point of time in history after that, people started taking up multiple jobs say like, brahmins went to war and learned vedas, black and gold smith started selling other stuffs as well... etc.. Here, the children started learning multiple things from father and also other stuffs..

After this... what happened ???

And how did we reach to a state wherein we just know our caste and not learn anythng from our parents and grandparents??

Any guess why/ how / what made us as we are now??


Subha said...

hmm..i think until the early 19th century until British colonialism took root, we were following to a certain extent..of course, then Britishers introduced the famous "Clerk" job in their bureaucracy and everything went to nuts..:)

Priya said...

yeh.. i think u r right.. anything else.. why should everybody change ??

ranjit kalidasan said...

Nothing went nuts. Kula tholil or varnaasram was a age old technique invented by upper caste brahmins to exploit people under them. Who says it's a right or duty of the people to do only what their forefathers did? In Tamilnadu this kula tholil was once planned to implement in society by rajaji, it was by periyar massive efforts and agitation that forced the government to abolish the system. It is sad to still see people supporting this and that too without knowing the history of it.

Priya said...

Till now, I have been talking neither in favour nor against kulathozhil.
I just want to know how in history, it gradually faded down..

All what you are saying are just reviving and reabolishing..I am talking about how gradually everybody is doing everything.. just the chronology.. Relax..please!!

யாத்திரீகன் said...

i stay aligned to ranjit's views on subha mentioning the system to have become nuts...

but priya i understand you had raised this topic on a different note.. so let me stop with this...


today i was watchin a utube video on the mayan civilization.. (hey priya, any plans to visit the Chichen Itza pyramid ?!) and there was a naration which talks about the change that happened there, how did such a civilization vanish into nowhere.. and then the narator says, the change would have been going on and only when we turned back after a while we realize that we have come across the change quite long back.. and that was a good naration...

now doesnt it fits over here...

Priya said...

yeh.. its gradually going..That idea fits here..

As like subha's thought-clerical job vandhadhunu sonna.. adhu maari what else..May be war?
which would want people to know their thozhil + sandai..

what else?? May be the independence porattam that wanted people to stop their work and come to fight??

well, on ranjith's discussion, I would say its both good and bad.
Good that people will have strong ideas and sharp focus in their family thozhil..the state

Bad that they may be either supressed or upheld depending on the political scenario.
In raja raja's period, andhanar were upheld..whereas in Rajendra's period, kammalar (aasari) were held higher than andhanar.

ranjit kalidasan said...

The so called 'kula tholil' not only encouraged (truly to be called forced) people to do only what they are told to do by the authority (In this case it is mostly the the upper caste authoritarians), it totally suppressed people to venture into other crafts. Imagine a farmers son interested in learning rituals by brahmins, or trade by chettiars. Do you believe he would be encouraged. May be in view of history sometimes the andhanar or aasaris were held higher by various kings, is there a history that says the so called lower caste people were atleast recognized by the society. It is so pathetic to see people saying that some clerical jobs in englishmen period replaced kulatholil. Do you people have any idea of our social history? In british period all the clerical and official positions were held by upper caste people. The british too directly involved in keeping the 'kula tholil' system in place to exploit people.
To sum up, I don't think there was anything good prevailed in a 'kulatholil' system. If a society thinks that heritage crafts to be carried by generations, then they could teach them in a school or universities.

Vanjula said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Priya said...

naan enna solla ranjith.. enakku history ellam andha alavukku theriyaadhu.. but raja rajan kalathula kulathozhil dhaan seyyanumnnu force kedayaadhu,.. ellarum 2 thozhil apdi kathukitaanga rajavum patronize pannaru..

en kelvi ellam adhu azhinjikalaamnradhu dhaan..ippo fore pannapatta adhu nalladhu illa.force panni matra thozhil kathukaama kashtapattaangalaannu enakku theriyaadhu..

ippo ulagam ennavo s/w mogathuula irukku.kulathozilaavadhu mannavadhudhaan.. andha kaalathula paisa va vida kalaikku mathuppu irundhichu..ippovaum irukku.. but koncham per kitta dhaan - andha koncha per ella kulathulayum dhaan irukkaanga..

hmnn.. nalladho kettadho..enakku 8 comment vandhichu;)-

தி. ரா. ச.(T.R.C.) said...

yaru sonnathu kulaththozhil kalvi seyyalainnu. naanka athane pannarom
kalainkar...stalin... kanimozhi
shivaji....prabhu.. dhushyanthan
ippati neendu kontee pokum

ranjit kalidasan said...

நீங்க 'குலதொழில்' என்கிற வார்த்தைய உபயோக படுத்தாமல் இருந்தால், உங்க பதிவுல ஒரு பிரச்சனையும் இல்ல.
போன நூற்றாண்டுல இந்த வார்த்தை, தமிழ் நாட்டுல பல அரசியல், சமுதாய மாற்றத்திற்கும், மறுமலர்ச்சிக்கும் காரணாமாய் இருந்தது. அந்த வரலாற்ற நீங்க தெரிஞ்சுக்காம போனதே ஒரு துரடிர்ஷ்டம் தான், தப்பு உங்க மேல இல்ல இதெல்லாம் நம்ம வரலாற்று பாடத்தில வராம விட்டது தான். நல்லவேலை நீங்க இந்த பதிவ மாதிரி sitesல போடாம இருந்தது, போட்டிருந்தீங்கனா, விழற commentsல நீங்க blog எழுதறதயே நிறுத்துடுவீங்க.

Priya said...

"kulathozhil"naale.. kulathozil nalladha illayaanra talk pesuvaanganra sindhanaila irukravangalukku naan vera edhayo pesinaalum apdi dhaan thonum..

endha vaarthaiyum eppayume oru contextu dhaan use pannanumnnu avasiyam illaye ranjith..contexta sariya purijukravanga enga irundhalum (thamilmanamla or so) adharku releventa comment viduvaanga. apdi purijukadhavangalukaaga naan kavala padamaaten.

apdi mathavanga solradha kadhu koduthu kekaama sandaiku vara gumbal thamizhmanathula enna.. engayum dhaan irukaanga..avangala nenachu neengalo/naano blog ezhuthaama irundhiruvomaa enna ranjith??!!

Priya said...

thir raa saa..

epdi irukeenga.. aalaye kaanom.. enjamaaingaa??

well, definitely.. as i said before..i think nalladhum kettadhum irukkunnu naan nambaren..
definita namba genela appoda thozhilukku andha eerpu neriaya perukku irukku innum..
ofcourse.. mathavangalum appavoda thozhil kathukardhum undu..

prabukarthik said...

podhuva indha kula thozhil concept oru vidathula oru protectionist measure / oru trade barrier madhiri dhaan..

competition a kuraika yedho oru distinction venum.. andha kaalathile jaadhi...

ok why did it lose sheen?

IMHO people do whatever works to them. endha jaadhi aanalaum endha kulamaanalum idhu dhaan niyadhi..
adhaan oru kaalathile thirudaradhu kooda kula thozhila irundhirukku...

appa seyyaradhai payyan senju nalla irundha thevalai.. kashtapatta?

innaikum nalla nadakara thozhila indha aadhikkam irukka dhaan, jewellery etc.

idhoda remnants /manifestation innum neraya edathile irukku..

gurumurthy is writing a series in thuglak which is essentially glorifying caste based community development in india. atleast thats the way i see it.

vettiya irundheenga na padikavum :D

I think there is nothing good or bad about kulathozhil.

Population jasthi aaga aaga competition um jasthi so adhuku thagunda madhiri ppl adopt new tactics to keep copmetition at bay..kula thozhil kaalaavadhi aana tactic...

prabukarthik said...

>>we just know our caste and not learn anythng from our parents and grandparents

here we = people like you and me :)
Not people like MK stalin, tata, birla, marans, ambanis, nehru family, mallayas, bachans etc.
they inherit their father's professions because its better that way :)))

Priya said...

pichuteenga ponga!!

யாத்திரீகன் said...

priya.. i'm yet to read your comments reply.. but if you get a chance.. do read an article named "Mudhal Thalaimurai" that comes everyweek in Ananda Vikatan.. this time, it aligns to the topic of discussion.. "Kulathozhil"....

hariprasad said...

kaalaiyil mazhunga muga savaram-savarath tholilali pola.
Appuram shoe polish-seruppu thaippavan pola.
kuliththathum kadavul vanthanam-
parpanan pola.
Dress pottu tie katti ID maattinal
Sales representative-viyabaari
evening thootathirkku thanneer-
kudiyanavan pola.
Weekendil thuni thuvaippu-
Salavai thozhilali pola

Ippadi yella velaigalaiyyum enakku naane seithu kolkira-kollavendiya kaalam idhu.
Munbellam mele sonna velaigalukkellam thanithaniyaga aatkal irunthargal. avargal mattume antha velaigalai seivargal.
Andha pinthangiya nilaiyil irunthu inraya munneriya nilakku vara vara ovvoru thozilaga naame pazagikkondom-(ofcourse yella thozililum konjam konjam)
Mukkiyamaga kaalaththirkkerpa soolnilaikkerpa thozilai karrukkolvathil,mattrikkolvathil nammavargal kaithernthavargal.
Ippozuthu computer katru irukkirome adhu mathiri.
Do you Agree/Satisfy with my answer?

Anonymous said...

Time is changing and we have to change to cope with the changes around our surrounding. I am in teaching profession which I never thought I would be doing. My grand parents were in Goldsmith profession..these days I have no idea of identifyin the difference between good and adulterated gold. Well I have studied so many books and about history. The skill based caste division of the ancient India served the purpose of that society. In course of time, inefficient Brahmins have developed these divisions into status problems and so on. Well to be clerk in the british Raj was a Pride in Slavery. And that changed the whole Indian mind-set. Now everyone is doing everything. Poverty is blowing up the nation and unemployment rate is indecisively growing. I still do not washing as I give it to laundry to give work to the people who are depending on that job. I have not a washing machine. I will ask the man/woman willing to clean my place and pay them reasonably. There are millions of people living on these kind of small jobs in India. Many of those people want to give their son/daughter a better life. And they need to do some job that they can do but not their children. And I am creating that opportunity that they can survive and make their children dream come true. We have to remember that India is still having millions of poor people and unqualified small job dependants.

Hey what I am talkin about...
something I felt to say...

siddhadreams said...

நீங்க இத பத்தி தெரிஞ்சுக்க “ வால்காவிலிருந்து கங்கை வரை” என்ற ராகுல சாங்கிருத்தியாயன் எழுதின புத்தகத்தை படிங்க. (நியூ செஞ்சுரி புக் ஹவுஸ் வெளியீடு)

இந்த blog தமிழில் இருந்தா இன்னும் நல்லா இருக்கும். உதவிக்கு NHM Writer பயன்படுத்துங்க. நேரடியா bloggerல தமிழில் type பண்ணலாம்.

siddhadreams said...

மேலே உள்ள முகவரியில் நீங்கள் கேட்ட வால்காவிலிருந்து கங்கை வரை புத்தகம் கிடைக்கும். க்கு வருகை தந்தமைக்கு நன்றி!

Rahul Sankrityayan என்று விக்கிபீடியாவில் தேடினால் மேலும் விவரங்கள் அறியலாம்.

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